One of my favorite stories about processes and documentation:
- Work at a hedge fund
- Every evening, the whole firm "cycles" to start the next trading day
- Step 7 of 18 fails
- I document Step 7 and then show it to a bunch of folks
- I end up having a meeting where I say: "Two things are true: 1. You all agree that Step 7 is incorrectly documented. 2. You all DISAGREE on what Step 7 should be doing"
I love this story as it highlights that JUST WRITING DOWN what's happening can be a giant leap forward in terms of getting people to agree on what the process actually IS. If you don't write it down, everyone may go on basing decisions on an incorrect understanding of the system.
A related story:
"As I was writing the documentation on our market data system, multiple people told me 'You don't need to do that, it's not that complicated'. Then they read the final document and said 'Oh, I guess it is pretty complicated' "
I've been in discussions about Step 7, and my god, the experience was soul crushing. Even more soul crushing was that the result of that discussion was to not document Step 7, because doing that might enforce the idea of what it should be for and why it should be done.
Writing stuff down is great since it provides a baseline to agree upon, and later additions to the team will take it as given and not start to discuss minutiae and bog down discussions into nothingness. And if some point really is worth discussing, it shouldn't be hard to find support to change it. I've heard some wild misunderstandings of how things were based on how they were being done, and now I never want to do anything of any significant size without there being a clear and obvious process to it.
> Let’s rip the Band-Aid off immediately: If your underlying business process is a mess, sprinkling "AI dust" on it won’t turn it into gold. It will just speed up the rate at which you generate garbage.
In the world of Business IT, we get seduced by the shiny new toy. Right now, that toy is Artificial Intelligence. Boardrooms are buzzing with buzzwords like LLMs, agentic workflows, and generative reasoning. Executives are frantically asking, "What is our AI strategy?"
But here is the hard truth:
There is no such thing as an AI strategy. There is only Business Process Optimization (BPO).
This is well-expressed, and almost certainly true for an overwhelming majority of companies.
I worked for a fortune 300 company that engaged in a Business Process Redesign initiative. After spending 90 million on the project they pulled the plug.
My takeaway was that the project was doomed because it was named wrong. Should have been called Business Process Design.
They are now owned by Private Equity. I can only wonder what madness the would have wrought with AI.
They tried to implement a system whereby a customer has a single customer number. Between mergers, acquisitions and shutdowns it was impossible to keep straight and keep tracking history. It impacted rates, contracts, sales commissions, division revenue-everything. In they end they gave everyone a new number while still using the old ones.
A similar observation commonly comes up related to software development - "it's not tech debt, it's org debt" (or to put a different way, "trying to use a technical solution to solve a social problem").
I hear that one a lot but pretty frequently it's applied to "social problems" which were caused by technology. It seems to imply some kind of technology/society boundary which doesn't actually exist.
Not to mention, technicial solutions are usually the only viable ones. It's not like, in practice, we solve social problems in other ways.
There very much is that boundary. Jira by tech itself is a good product, but now try shoving it down people’s throats and see how that goes.
Or on a bigger scale look at FB/Social media and society. There definitely without a doubt is a boundary. They interact and overlap.
Mild disagree.
The saying "you can't solve social problems with technology" usually means - at least in the places I have heard / used it - "If your workforce fights a process - be it for the process being stupid, tools being slow, incentives do not align with policy, whatever - especially a control step, no amount of mandatory tech enforcement of that process step will yield better results." At best you get garbled data because someone hit the keyboard to fill in mandatory fields, sometimes, the process now works OUTSIDE of the system by informal methods because 'work still needs to be done', at worst, you get a mutiny.
You have to fix the people(s' problems) by actually talking to them and take the pain points away, you do not go to 'computer says no' territory first.
In my experience, no org problem is only social, and no tech problem is merely technical. Finding a sustainable solution in both fields is what distinguishes a staff engineer from a junior consultant.
I've been thinking a lot about that lately, and I agree. I used to be hard in the "You can't solve social problems with technical solutions", but that's not the whole truth. If people aren't using your thing, sure, you can brand that as social problem (lack of buy-in on the process, people not being heard during rollout, ...). However one way of getting people to use your thing/process is to make it easier to use. Integrate it well into the workflow they're already familiar with, bring the tooling close, reduce friction, provide some extra value to your users with features etc. That's technical solutions, but if you choose them based on knowledge of the "social problem" they can be quite effective.
This is what I was trying to express, perhaps poorly:
> no org problem is only social, and no tech problem is merely technical.
I was going for "the intersection is clearly nonempty" but maybe the better argument is "the intersection is pretty much everything."
Another point of view on that.
I work on SaaS platform as engineer. We can have some people from customer A asking for bunch of fields to be mandatory - just to get 6 months later people from that company nagging about the fields saying our platform sucks - well no their process and requirements suck - we didn’t come up which fields are mandatory.
Oh, now I have a name for the epidemic pervasive through our company.
Almost all of the tech debt we have was introduced by leadership guidance to ignore. And all additional debt to manage it or ameliorate it (since problems don't just go away) is also guidance from leadership to fast track fixes.
What happened to the days where software engineers were the experts who decided tech priority?
> What happened to the days where software engineers were the experts who decided tech priority?
Outside of a very small number of firms that were called out as notable for being led in a way that enabled that, often by engineers that were themselves still hands on, they never existed, and even there it was “business leadership that happened to also be engineers, and made decisions based on business priorities informed by their understanding of software engineering”, not “software engineers in their walled-off citadels of pure engineering”, and it usually involves, in successful firms, considerable willingness to accept tech debt, just as business leadership can often not be shy about accepting funancial debt.
> business leadership can often not be shy about accepting financial debt
Business leadership is not shy about accepting financial debt when business leadership has decided it should accept financial debt. Technical leadership should ostensibly not be shy about accepting technical debt because business leadership has decided it should accept technical debt. The distribution of agency and responsibility in the two situations is different.
“tech is easy, people are hard”
Although I very much agree with the sentiment "here's the hard truth" is LinkedIn speak/ LLM-tell to me
Probably the OP might have used LLM's to structure the document, but the sentiment `Automating stupidity = faster stupidity` is a great take away.
There was a guy who wrote a blog post in that style who was wondering how it was he'd posted hundreds of messages to people on LinkedIn and gotten no replies.
There are some people who insist on spamming out splog posts in that style, some of them think they are blogging, not splogging, and maybe they have good intentions but that style screams "SPAM!" and unfortunately people who are writing that don't understand how it comes across.
There is an ai strategy if you are selling hype instead of products.
Almost every problem a modern corpo has can be solved with an appropriate head-count of appropriately trained/educated people, and that's why none of them get solved.
The processes suck because of decades of corner cutting and "fat" trimming while the executives congratulate themselves for only making the product a biiiit worse in exchange for a 0.0005% cost reduction, before then offsetting any gains by giving themselves all the money that would've gone to whatever is now dead.
Repeat this process for 30 years and you have companies like Microsoft that can barely ship anything that works anymore, and our 4 Big Websites frequently just fail to load pages for no explicable reason, Amazon goes down and takes 1/3 of the internet with it, and AI companies are now going to devour the carcass of our internet and shit it back to us in LLM waffle while charging us money for the privilege to eat it.
Honestly, I don't know if throwing people at a problem is the way to go. Doubly so given that a good chunk of the projects lately for me deal with third party vendors and those are so .. embedded that even getting basic requirements, documentation is an uphill battle ( which -- to me -- seems insane ). I have zero pull so I do what I can, notate the insanity for cya and move on.
I do agree on execs congratulating themselves afterwards though. It was obscene last year. This year it was mildly muted.
Throwing people at a problem is very different from allocating an appropriate head-count of appropriately trained/educated people. A small but skilled team can accomplish a lot, whereas a lot of the wrong people can't do much at all. Generally there are more than enough warm bodies available, big companies are full of those, the issue is that skilled people aren't fungible - the team of 12 working on this project seems to be moving at a snails pace because really it's two people, both of whom are split across several other projects simultaneously, doing the real work and everyone else doing stuff that is likely unnecessary if not straight up counterproductive. It takes skill, effort and discipline to cultivate a team that actually has all the skills it needs to succeed, in the form of people who mutually work well together, to keep these people around over an extended period of time, and not try to split them up onto different projects and plug the gaps with the wrong people.
You can always throw other things at those people instead.
> Almost every problem a modern corpo has can be solved with an appropriate head-count of appropriately trained/educated people
Not really, because solving those problems with headcount defeats the point. Part of the definition of those kinds of problems is that solutions involving headcount are invalid.
It's The Mythical Man Month idea. Programming software is a different thing than working on an assembly line, or a call center, or in retail sales. You're much better off having four programmers who are worth paying $200k a year than ten programmers who are worth paying $75k a year.
I'm going to argue that, at scale, process beats the quality of the people you're using -- and also that there are toxic cultures, around Google and C++, where very smart people get seduced into spending all their time and effort fighting complexity, battling 45 minute builds, etc.
> and also that there are toxic cultures, around Google and C++, where very smart people get seduced into spending all their time and effort fighting complexity, battling 45 minute builds, etc.
Not sure what you mean here. "Fighting" as in "seeking to prevent", or "putting up with", or what exactly? Is this supposed to be bad because it's exploitative, or because it's a poor use of the smart person's time, or what exactly?
Essentially that the idea that people can hold 7 + 2 things in their head simultaneously is basically true such that when your tools make a demand on your attention it subtracts from the attention you can put on other things.
There are many sorts of struggle. There is struggle managing essential complexity and also the struggle, especially in the pre-product phase, of getting consensus over what is "essential" [1] When it comes to accidental complexity you can just struggle following the process or struggle to struggle less in the future by some combination of technical and social innovations which themselves can backfire into increased complexity.
Google can afford to use management techniques that would be impossible elsewhere because of the scale and profitability of their operations. Many a young person goes there thinking they'll learn something transferable but the market monopolies are the one thing that they can't walk out with.
[1] Ashby's law https://www.edge.org/response-detail/27150 best exemplified by the Wright flyer which could fly without tumbling because it controlled roll, pitch and yaw.
It can both be Business Process Optimization and an AI strategy.
In fact, if an AI strategy becomes business process optimization, I'd say that AI strategy for that company is successful.
There are too many AI strategy today that isn't even business process optimization and detached from bottom line, and just being pure FOMO from the C suite. Those probably won't end well.
I feel like this is an inside view from the BPO community and the only part of AI they see is the part that affects BPO. But for most businesses AI strategy is not about AI for internal use but AI to either improve customer funnels or launch new products. Most of the companies I've talked to in the past year wanted a strategy for customer facing AI not internal AI.
The last time a company put an AI chat bot between me and actual customer service it didn’t listen to my problem and hallucinated something I didn’t say.
LLMs do not improve customer funnels. Well-designed decision-trees can, but we're not calling those "AI" at the moment.
I have complicated feelings towards process, especially in large enterprises. In one hand, I know process is how you get good work out of average people - and that has a lot of value in big businesses because statistically, most people are going to be around average.
On the other hand, I have seen process stifle above average people or so called “rockstars”. The thing is, the bigger your reliance on process, the more you need these people to swoop in and fill in the cracks, save the day when things go horribly wrong, and otherwise be the glue that keeps things running (or perhaps oil for the machine is more apt).
I know it’s not “fair”, and certainly not without risk, but the best way I have (personally) seen it work is where the above average people get special permissions such as global admin or exception from the change management process (as examples) to remove some of the friction process brings. These people like to move fast and stay focused, and don’t like being bogged down by petty paperwork, or sitting on a bridge asking permission to do this or that. Even as a manger, I don’t blame them at all, and all things being equal so long as they are not causing problems I think the business would prefer them to operate as they do.
In light of those observations, I have been wrestling a lot with what it says about process itself. Still undecided.
The Agile Manifesto says "People over process", this can be interpreted in many ways. But ideally you follow the 80/20 rule and have clear cut processes for the most frequent cases and/or liability/law/SLA stuff you can't do without. But you should have fast escape hatches as well imo where a good engineer having admin access on a platform or deploying a hot-fix is also possible.
> On the other hand, I have seen process stifle above average people or so called “rockstars”. The thing is, the bigger your reliance on process, the more you need these people to swoop in and fill in the cracks, save the day when things go horribly wrong, and otherwise be the glue that keeps things running (or perhaps oil for the machine is more apt).
This is a case of bad process. No process is perfect, but the whole point of process is so when things go wrong they don't go horribly wrong, and that you don't need rockstars to fill in the cracks. It should be making your rockstars faster because the stuff they need others to take care of gets done well. Unnecessary friction that slows people down is generally a sign of management mistaking paperwork for process.
Very often paperwork is the necessary process. I’ve seen multiple engineering teams who used to accept essentially any customer escalation, for example, until they found themselves essentially being DDoSed by poorly explained tickets filed at much too high of a priority. Now they have forms that customer-facing folks have to fill out explaining in detail what’s going wrong, why an escalation is required, and naming the senior person who’s accountable for the accuracy of that form.
Is it slow and annoying to jump through these hoops? Without a doubt! I’ve also seen people on the other side of the process who are very frustrated that they can’t just escalate when they know devs would want to hear about it. But it’s not acceptable for people to get woken up every week because the new support engineer filed a customer error as a global outage, and smart people tried and failed to put a stop through it through training. I don’t know what the alternative could be.
Providing the rockstars with a sandbox where they can do anything and work independently, while being shielded from all the processes and paperwork that slow them down (while also having people to pull that slack), is a fairly good method, but depending on the work that isn't viable. Their work has to come out of the sandbox at some point, and there will be some back-and-fourth which will probably put blocks on the team in that case.
I doubt there's much to do about the specific process that can be done to minimise the problems of the rockstars without also causing problems further down the ladder, without just starting to make exceptions like you said. It's probably just an emergent behaviour of processes like this intended to raise average quality. You pull up the bottom floor, but the roof gets lower as a result. You can find similar problems in schooling.
One thing process protects against is lazy people.
Like, we recently had an incident where someone just pasted "401 - URL" into the description and sent it off. We recently asked someone to open the incident through the correct channels. We got a service request "Fix" with the mail thread attached to it in a format we couldn't open. We get incidents "System is slow, infrastructure is problem" from random "DevOps" people.
Sadly, that is the crap you need to deal with. This is the crap that grinds away cooperative culture by pure abuse. Before a certain dysfunctional project was dumped on us as "Make it Saas", people were happy to support ad-hoc, ambitious and strange things.
We are now forced by this project to enforce procedure and if this kills great ideas and adventures, so be it. The crappy, out-of-process things cost too much time.
I think it is a managerial failure to have rockstar-type employees work the menial, process-managed stuff. Those should work on the unusual, the new, the moonshots. Stuff that has not yet been formalized in BPMN 2.0
>It is the first technology that is truly useful for handling unstructured data.
>Processes that rely on unstructured data are usually unstructured processes.
I appreciate someone succinctly summing up this idea.
Best lines in this article. But it doesn't get to IMO a very important point: why can't these processes easily be structured? Here are some good reasons:
- Your process interacts with an unstructured external world (physical reality, customer communication, etc.)
- Your process interacts with differently structured processes, and unstructured in the best agreed transfer protocol (could be external, like data sources, or even internal between teams with different taxonomies)
- Your process must support a wild kind of variability that is not worth categorizing (e.g. every kind of special delivery instruction a customer might provide)
Believing you can always solve these with the right taxonomy and process diagram is like believing there is always another manager to complain to. Experienced process design instead pushes semi-structured variability to the edges, acknowledges those edges, and watches them like a hawk for danger.
We should ABSOLUTELY be applying those principles more to AI... if anything, AI should help us decouple systems and overreach less on system scope. We should get more comfortable building smaller, well-structured processes that float in an unstructured soup, because it has gotten much cheaper for us to let every process have an unstructured edge.
This doesn’t ring true to me. Having processes which rely on communication between humans using natural language can of course be either structured or unstructured. Plenty of highly functioning companies existed well before structured data was even a thing.
"Talk to the vendor and see what they say" is an unstructured process relying on unstructured data.
"Ask the vendor this set of 10 compliance questions. We can only buy if they check every box." is a structured process based on structured data.
Both kinds of processes have always existed, long before modern technology. Though only the second kind can be reliably automated.
Structured data doesn't have be a database. It can be a checklist, a particular working layout, or even just a defined process. Many high functioning companies spent a lot of time on those kinds of things, which became a competitive advantage.
Technology folks often confuse structured data needed for their computing function as being needed for the business process.
I have done general process automation work (usually designing new web-based tools) for 20 years now. The underlying idea has always applied, even before AI: if your process is ill-defined and/or nonsensical, trying to "automate" it isn't going to work out.
I have seen a smattering of instances along the way where the act of defining requirements forced companies to define processes better. Usually, though, companies are unwilling to do this and instead will insist on adding flexibility to the automation tooling, to the point where the tool is of no help.
My time working in the search field for 13 years, there is always this trend:
Leaders think <buzzy-technique> is a good way to save money, but <buzzy-technique> actually is a thing that requires deeper investment to realize more returns, not a money saver.
That's why you need consultants to tell you that <buzzy-technique> has problems, but <rebadged-buzzy-technique> is really how you save money, and that's why working with a <rebadged-buzzy-technique> expert is how you can overhaul your business and manage operational costs.
The other nuance is that by definition all of these undocumented workflows are out-of-distribution for the model - so it won't be particularly great at them.
I am compelled to quote Fred Brooks: "There is no silver bullet". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet
I’m like 99% sure that text is llm-written. “Mess/gold” comparisons, meta paragraph expressions like “here is the truth”, “it’s not this, it’s that”…
> There is no such thing as an AI strategy. There is only Business Process Optimization (BPO).
Here’s your Ai strategy: every few months re-evaluate agent fitness and start switching over. Remember backstops and canaries.
Details:
Businesses usually assign responsibilities to somewhat flaky employees, with understanding there will be a percentage of errors. This works ok so long as errors don’t fluctuate wildly and don’t amplify through the system. Most business processes are a mess and that works ok.
Once agents become less flaky and there are enough backstops to contain occasional damage business will start switching.
Bold presumption that businesses have any useful way to evaluate agent fitness. Hell, they struggle to evaluate human fitness and do basic things like plan and execute OKRs. What makes you think they’d be any good at continuous quality improvement on entities that can’t correctly explain their own reasoning?
I've seen several serveral introduction of new ERPs in companies, usually they wanted the same processes they had just with the new software, the customizing turned out be a nightmare as the consultants usually accpeted their wishes and the programmers had to bend the ERP-system accordingly, never was in budget or in time
This is AI generated, which is annoying.
I think there is one counter argument, LLMs are speeding up everything, including the speed of learning, which also implies that companies that might have bad processes would learn and move to good processes as well on the way.
Example, one of many things, in our SDLC process, now we have test cases and documentation which never existed before (coming from a startup).
This should go to all CEOs. They should realize that the real problem AI solves is handling of text and unstructured data. That is the core ability.
But I don't blame them. Process optimization is hard. If a new tool promises more speed, without changing the process, they are ready to pour money at that.
Well, that’s a pretty powerful capability.
I recently did a pilot project where we reduced the time for a high friction IT Request process from 4 day fulfillment to about 6 business hours. By “handing text and unstructured data”, the process was able to determine user intent, identify key areas of ambiguity that would delay the request, and eliminate the ambiguity based on data we have (90%) or by asking a yes/no question to someone.
All using GCP tools integrating with a service platform, our ERP and other data sources. Total time ~3 weeks, although we cheated because we understood both the problem and process.
I suspect that could have also been accomplished without any kind of AI. Most processes are inefficient simply because nobody has taken the time to optimize them (and rightly so if they’re not used often enough to justify the time; premature optimization and all that). The act of simply deciding to optimize something, and then looking at it, usually results in significant gains just because of that, regardless of what tools were used.
Text and unstructured data is mainly related to NLP/LLM, not to the AI as a whole.
If you take out LLM (text/img/voice processing) from all the models, I'm curious to know, what else is left that can be called as AI today?
In fairness, that is an extraordinary talent. The reality is that a huge amount of processes that exist have critical steps where humans have to make judgments because the information (was thought to be) not clear and structured enough for a machine.
For many processes that have just suddenly changed, somewhat subjective evaluations can be made reliably by an AI. At least as reliably as was being done before by relatively junior or outsourced staff.
Replacing low-level employees relying on a decision matrix playbook-type document with AI has a LOT of applications.
>If you automate a stupid decision, you just make stupid decisions at light speed.
What's the prompt for that one? ;)
>They think artificial intelligence brings intelligence. It doesn't.
What does it bring?
If your answer requires clustering and assembling disparate facts strewn about on the internet or company data / documents and reasoning over them, then LLMs can help that. Atleast that's what I did when I used to answer questions on stackoverflow.
You did read https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/421831 , yes?
My point was before AI, when I used to answer stackoverflow questions out of curiosity, I used to manually search around on internet to properly answer the question. This is exactly the process LLMs help with.
LinkedIn Standard English, tab closed
Yet another blogger conflating AI with LLMs again. AI will absolutely transform your business process if you're not yet another software shop vibing container deployment scenarios. ex: https://viterbischool.usc.edu/news/2025/10/researchers-inven...
How is what you linked a business process? Cancer identification is a step in a larger process, specifically the "analyze unstructured data" part that the author alludes to.
AI won't take a shoddy process (say, your process for reviewing and accepting forms from patients) and magically make it better if you don't have an idea of what "better" actually entails.
"Improving a system requires knowing what you would do if you could do exactly what you wanted to. Because if you don't know what you would do if you could do exactly what you wanted to, how on earth are you going to know what you can do under constraints?"
- Russ Ackoff
Hi Russ,
Did you read the example? The business process of human bias is gone in the cancer detective phase. AI eliminated it.
Cancer detection is not a process. That's a discrete step in a process.
My name isn't Russ. Russ Ackoff was a business process optimization leader from the last century -- a contemporary of Deming and the Toyota school etc.
The article mentions other steps are changing due to AI. It's a ship of Thesus result. Multiple steps are changing, some are eliminated, some are still needed, yet the overall name of the process (cancer detection) doesn't change.