One of my favourite places in the world is this one particular McDonalds in Camberwell that's open 24 hrs.
On a Friday night at 2am, its full of people from all walks of life - from delivery workers taking a 5 minute break, to wedding party socialites looking for a quick food fix since everything else is closed - and they're all there for the exact same reason and are sitting next to each other without any tension or fanfare.
There really is a certain community magic to it.
Sounds like a Waffle House an hour after last call except replace "without any tension or fanfare" with "overwhelming aggressive unpredictability" hah.
In my home town the joke was waffle house is for when you want denny's but don't know how to fight.
McDonald's functions as sort of public square, which is missing elsewhere in society, as the employees are to detached or inattentive to care if people are loitering too long. Same for Starbucks.
The author suggests the opposite, at least for McDonald's - the employees do care and are attentive to the needs of the people in the restaurant, and that's part of why the community springs up there. I'd expect McDonald's corporate policy is to hustle people along, and it's inattentiveness to that policy that enables the public square, not inattentiveness to the people in the square.
for what it's worth, I have not seen this at any McDonald's beyond the expected service of preparing the food.
The author of the article is a published author who writes about poverty and addiction - he links to a good excerpt from his book in the Guardian, which might better establish his bonafides for these kinds of claims: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/america-dign...
I walked by the Starbucks in my neighborood recently and there were about 30 customers inside sitting at long tables. Every single person was staring at an electronic device. Maybe that's how a public square works nowdays.
> These communities are the flowers growing between the cracks of the cement parking lot: a reminder that life survives, and often thrives, in the harshest environments, such as the modern world
Lovely writing here. I am fascinated by the idea that the porousness of any system is its lifeline or even possibly its great enabler.
There's a legend that during the Chinese revolution, extremely rural and difficult to travel to villages simply lied about their yearly rice yield, and thus were taxed less and avoided what would have sent them into the same starvation cycle as other areas, and this enabled the Maoist system to survive much longer than it would have otherwise. Similar stories from Stalist Russia, but the idea isn't limited to totalitarianism; as the story notes it applies to our paved-over modern American life as well.
Contrary to the article, I somewhat feel that our current world is far too porous: we lack virtually any structure; we feel adrift rather than locked up. A coffee meetup in a McDonalds is an attempt to build a community in a cultural ghost-town, not a rebellion against perfect order.
I believe we live in hyper-optimized times. We are at the stage of capitalism where every single crumb is accounted for, every single blueberry on a muffin is tallied, and it's taking the joy out of life and of society.
Even McDonald's is affected. It seemed a lot more joyful when I was younger and it was certainly more staffed. People are managing to create community out of a spaces that is getting more and more sterile, transactional, and minimalist.
Life endures? Sounds a little overwrought for something like McDonald's. It's a community in so far as people gather there, but otherwise people interact little with each other except when ordering food.
I got “in” to McDonald's when I was studying the Freeway revolts and realized how skilled McDonalds Corporate were at real estate speculation way back in the 1950s. In San Francisco there was (key word: was) a McDonald's along every corridor that would have been more highly traveled had the freeways been built as planned: Haight & Stanyan, Turk & Golden Gate, Van Ness (this one was actually unironically beautiful, look it up). I would get breakfast at that former Haight location on my way to work every morning, Bacon Egg & Cheese biscuit and a large black coffee — my fav.
Also recommended: “Franchise: The Golden Arches in Black America” http://www.marciachatelain.com/ (2021 Pulitzer Prize winner)
This is an interesting read, I kind of feel like the author is capturing something interesting about what Mickey D's has become in the last decade or two, but also laying it on a little too thick with the "what does it all mean for America". They're a franchise and huge corporation that keeps a lot of storefronts clean and open, employs a lot of people in thankless low-paying jobs, and puts out pretty middling food that I swear was so much better back in the 90s.
I'll share a quick personal story of my relationship with the restaurant. About 15 years ago I was struggling to find any jobs after college, my bank account was bone dry, and I felt fat from my habit of eating too much fast food. I went to a McDonald's and got some 20-piece chicken mcnugget special (I think it was less than $5). I ate one piece and suddenly felt overwhelmed at all these thoughts and threw the rest of it out. I felt like I was at the bottom. I didn't eat at a McDonald's or any other fast food for another 5 years, lost a bunch of weight and got my career moving. On the rare occasion I go there anymore (usually because someone else wants to go), I feel like I'm eating bland nothing food and some deeper part of me feels sick.
Yeah, it isn't elitism that makes my stomach feel horrible when I eat fast food.
Are you sure? The brain plays a huge part in nausea.
When I was quite young (maybe 5-9) my family did a lot of trips to the U.S. for my dad’s IBM server training stuff. Something that made me anxious was the border crossing because my dad got all serious and told us to be quiet and it felt intimidating.
As a consequence of being so young I couldn’t distinguish between Customs and a toll booth so they made me anxious too. And one day we were driving up to what looked like a huge toll booth or Customs stop and I was terribly anxious until we got close enough and it was this super weird McDonald’s. A gas station below, restaurant on top. It had such an impact on me that I spent the years after being hopeful any time I saw customs or tool booths that it was this fantastical McDonald’s.
Also I once went to a McDonald’s with model trains running along the top of the walls. That was super cool.
You may enjoy Nonstandard Mcodonads: https://x.com/nonstandardmcd
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/04/1028769806/one-mans-journey-t...
My favorite unique McDonald’s is in Freeport, Maine.
> When the town wouldn't allow the fast-food behemoth to build a new restaurant, they put one inside an 1850 home.
> The year was 1984. McDonald's was looking to build a location in the town of Freeport, Maine. There was only one problem: The Freeport building design restrictions were strict, and the town wanted the fast-food giant to maintain the area's aesthetic. In other words: No golden arches. McDonald's solution? Remodel an existing structure.
Pictures here: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/mcdonalds-freeport-mansi...
What a classy McDonalds, makes me feel like I'd need a tie.
I once worked for two hours out of a mc donalds, even had a 30 minute teams meeting (it was completely empty at 10 in the morning) and the wifi was quite fast
> At the end of October, there was the viral, and controversial, Trump campaign stop, where he “worked” for 30 minutes at a McDonald’s in Pennsylvania. Then, this week, there was the news that Luigi Mangione, the alleged assassin of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, was caught in a McDonald’s—also, coincidentally, in Pennsylvania—because he was spotted by a group of morning regulars and employees
Didn't Kamala Harris also work at McDonalds https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/01/kamala-harris-on-working-at-...? Pretty sure Trump's stunt was because of that. But I guess it's fair to assume everyone who followed that story knows the context. Or perhaps the author is more sympathetic to one candidate and would rather not air unproven claims: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-mcdonalds-college/
It felt really odd that the author neglected to mention the reason the stunt should have fallen flat was that he was using it to mock Harris for actually having worked at McDonalds, not cosplaying at it.
That's the part that seemed odd for an article trying to put McD in the spotlight of the recent events. It just read as completely random "look, how crazy he is, he decided out of the blue to stage a McD cosplay foto session".
Trump was an actual campaign stop photo op... Harris didn't do a McD photo op. So not clear on your point.
Also Trump rode in a garbage truck around the same time. Was he one upping Harris? Or just trying to appeal to the working class? Probably the latter...
> So not clear on your point.
I just meant that an article, claiming to go for a deep dive on how McDonald's is part of the new American zeitgeist, mentions one presidential candidate, and the CEO murderer, but doesn't mention the other presidential candidate.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/01/kamala-harris-on-working-at-... is just from a few months ago.
> “It was not a small job,” Harris told Ruhle. “There are people who work at McDonald’s in our country who are trying to...raise families and pay rent.”
Just seemed like an odd omission, that's all.
Not really. Free Press is only pretending to be journalism. In an article defending JK Rowling, they describe people who are upset with her views on transgender rights as "maniacs, who are then flattered by cowards". It's a partisan rag.
The garbage-truck photo op was Trump's a followup to his campaign calling Puerto Rico "garbage", and in particular to Biden calling that behavior "garbage".
This comment illustrates pretty well how much of a game of telephone american political culture is.
The person whispering in my ear said that a roast comedian at a trump rally told a joke where Puerto Rico was called an island of garbage. I wonder how many levels it had to go to become "[trumps] campaign calling Puerto Rico "garbage"".
Your chronology does not fit.
I frankly consider far more likely that Harris have never worked in a McDonalds. All her campaing was full of dumb astro-turfing, this would just fit the general bs theme.
What a bizarre statement about a place of business that's tried to irrelevance themselves into non-existence this year. Fast food pricing is now equal or beyond the prices of quality food with non-chain fast food (i.e. doner/local pizza joints) becoming the new affordable option.
McDonalds is financially quite healthy. They've never been the cheapest nor the best quality. McDonalds excels in having food at the right place at the right time and a minimal effort to transact.
If you are traveling at any random place in the US, and you are in a hurry and want something you are familiar with, McDonalds is the most likely thing you will come across first. There is a huge cognitive anchoring this has.
Don't forget consistency - you can get chicken nuggets and barbecue sauce and french fries that taste recognizably the same at any of their 42,000 restaurants. The food preparation and storage, shipping logistics, and other underpinnings of their consistency trick are admirable, even if the other issues with fast food detract from the overall picture.
That's what I was hinting at "something you are familiar with" and "effort to transact". People hopping off the highway for a quick stop with their family don't want to mull over SlopBowl's menu for 10 minutes, even if it's better quality... they know if they roll into a McD, they can grab a happy meal and the kid won't complain.
But a strawberry shake in the US tastes horrible to those used to the DE version.
I basically never eat at McDonald's personally but I expect a lot of people just default to it as the predictable option that isn't too bad for their tastes and doesn't cost too much.
They're rapidly burning part of their core value proposition for finances. They are increasing transaction friction, via much higher store prices and requirement to use their app, forcing use of touchscreen ordering, etc.
Boeing appeared quite financially healthy in summer 2018 as well.
I'm not sure that having a franchise fall out of the sky would be so harmful to McDonalds though.
Perhaps, but a lot of these arguments have been used for Starbucks, where it seems like their relentless streamlining and price increases have been catching up with them.
McD's has been on a similar path, and have reintroduced $5 meal deals in an attempt to bring customers that have been priced out back.
> If you are traveling at any random place in the US
And not only in the US. McDonald's is big in some European countries like France. In small towns, McDonald's may be the only option available past a certain hour.
My relationship with the company has evolved though. When we were teenagers, we loved McDonald's. It was also not available everywhere and quite novel, so we would sometimes drive a long way with my mom just to go there. Nowadays, I'm much more concern about my health so it's really one of the last option I'd consider. It feels they have become dirtier than what they used to be though, but maybe that's subjective.
Taco Bell: Te parezco un chiste?
Taco bell has significantly fewer locations, it's less likely that your next exit has one.
Out of curiosity, apparently US totals are Subway 20k, Starbucks 15k, McD's 13k, Dunkin 9k, Taco Bell / Burger King 7k, Dominos / Pizza Hut / Wendy's 6k, then others.
Subway is a good reminder that location matters too. While they have a lot of locations, they are not nearly as selective in where they go.
Subway is also an optimization in franchise virality and typically doesn't own its own real estate.
I.e. they will let you open a Subway franchise today and me another one across the street tomorrow.
Also something of an exercise in my experience of how bad sandwich franchises can be.
It's indeed crazy how expensive McDo meals had become. When I was a student I used to eat 2/3 hamburgers 1€ each, and something the 2€ local thing too. Now those doubled or tripled. A maxi best of is at least 12€. Sorry but at this price I'll eat anywhere else. The only thing I'm eating these days is the 5€ menu with 4 items in it, the happy meal at 4€ when there's Pokémon cards as toy and the Mac First when it is at 6€ (spoiler: it's often closer to 7€ in most place now).
That being said even kebabs are a luxury now. What used to be 3€ or 5€ with fries and drink is now 7/8€ alone, or 12€ in combo with fries or drink. Well, one more think I'll eat way less than before.
Or you make your own meals.
Have you spent much time in their dining rooms? Niche as Chris Arnade’s expertise may be, it sure seems hard-earned:
> I can answer both questions. I’ve spent over a decade sitting in McDonald’s all over the United States—I believe I’ve visited over 500 franchises. Roughly half the conversations I had for my 2019 book Dignity took place in a McDonald’s—in fact, my working title was, Everything You Want to Know About America Can Be Learned in a McDonald’s, because I sincerely believe this.
Costco is my new restaurant. Food is more fresh and costs way less.
If only they had a $1.50 hamburger option!
I have thought that, if you're on a road trip, Costco could be pretty good. Stop there, get a rotisserie chicken, feeds 2-4 people, costs $5. (I mean, you still need a trash bag, paper plates, and a large number of napkins...) And you were going to stop for gas anyway, and they have that.
Maybe at mid-day during the week. On Sunday, the Costco parking lot is the last place I'd want to be if I'm trying to get miles on the road.
Yeah that sucks. It really depends on the time.
Yeah man, almost perfect, and they have desserts too! Sadly no coffee...well just packaged ones.
but not as convenient as McDonald's . fewer locations, need membership afik for food
Yeah that's true. Fortunately we have one 15 mins of drive away.
I have been wondering if this should be seen as a success of laws raising minimum wage. In some states, the rapid rise of minimum wage means that it is no longer viable to have someone else make a sandwich for you. Isn't that a victory for those who want equality?
Reminds me how one-type-fits-all smartphones are sold as premium devices.
Yes but they are not everywhere. As much as hate the below mediocre junk McD mostly produces, sometimes they are the only place open for miles around.
Then, this week, there was the news that Luigi Mangione, the alleged assassin of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson
Isn't it pretty obvious it's him? Is there any possibility he was framed or something.
McDonald's plays a big role because it also happens to be extremely popular and has many locations all over America. It's brand is an iconic and big as ever.
It also shows how America has a sort of love-hate relationship with fast-food. We know it's unhealthy and overpriced but we cannot stop eating it.
It’s an established practice in journalism to describe accused who haven’t been convicted as “alleged” criminals, regardless of how damning the evidence is.
The legal basis of this is a fear of libel lawsuits. But I think even when a libel lawsuit is extremely unlikely the practice is still followed - out of an abundance of caution, out of convention, or perhaps out of principle - that is, out of deference to the presumption of innocence on a fundamental level.
Journalists generally say "alleged", even when it's real obvious someone did the crime, in order to limit liability. They don't want to risk the off chance that the person is found not guilty and then comes after the journalists for libel.
The people who would know that best are the people investigating, prosecuting, and judging him. In real life, not through rumor and media (social or otherwise).
I’m not aware of evidence to the contrary, but then I wouldn’t be, because I’m not involved with the investigation or the trial. Neither is most anyone commenting publicly right now.
It’s alleged until it’s proven, and in the US that’s a formal process that concludes with a guilty plea or verdict.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Precisely zero reliable evidence has been presented that ties him to the place or the hit, as of right now.
It's anything but obvious. What is obvious is that NYC law enforcement had tremendous pressure to apprehend and prosecute a suspect quickly, and that they had precisely nothing to go on before he was miraculously identified by a random person. You may also recall that there is no imagery of the assassin's face during the hit.
Of course someone who planned such a hit so carefully would keep carrying around the murder weapon for several days, across state lines, as well as a printed hardcopy of a manifesto establishing motive (he worked in IT). Very little of what the police have claimed thus far has made any logical sense.
Obvious how?
The author is really laying the populist manipulation on thick. After about two paragraphs, I felt as greasy as a McDonald's hash brown.
Chris Arnade, who is the author of the article, has been writing about some of these topics for almost a decade now. He is worth checking out.
McDonald’s has also seen a major boycott because of its Israeli branch’s support for the Israeli actions in Gaza:
https://fortune.com/2024/07/30/mcdonalds-gaza-boycott-israel...
Apparently it was so bad that global McDonalds bought back all the Israeli franchises.
I don't think that is the connection here, but being pro-Israel is a good way to get featured in TFP; the editor is an avowed Zionist.
McDonald's stock is up 20% since Oct 7, 2023
Sales growth slowed a bit, but the boycott effort was a temporary scare to the business that didn't have significant impact on sales long term.
It sounds like you are attempting to disagree with the parent comment, but you don't present anything that contradicts them. The boycott effort slowed sales, which triggered the parent company to buy back the Israeli franchises, and then the boycott died away.