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Hungary's oldest library is fighting to save books from a beetle infestation(npr.org)
195 points by smollett 7 days ago | 34 comments
  • bob10293 days ago

    Controlling humidity could be the simplest option. RH <50% makes it really hard for anything living to propagate in an otherwise "dry" space.

    • exhilaration3 days ago |parent

      That works great for your basement but what's the impact of low humidity on ancient books?

      • bob10293 days ago |parent

        You definitely wouldn't want to go all the way to zero. 30-50% RH is generally the sweet spot for archival purposes.

      • Amezarak3 days ago |parent

        The library also talks about having a huge mold problem, so it would likely be positive.

  • Iryna773 days ago

    When opening this I didn’t expect such an advanced level of insect infestation described in the library, so the entire collection is classified as infected and must be treated all at the same time. They have to remove about 100,000 handbound books and i guess bc of the age of some of these books the best treatment is oxygen deprivation but “the abbey hopes all the beetles will be destroyed” after 6 weeks is not a promising statement

  • dr_dshiv3 days ago

    I wish there was a tracker showing all the unscanned and untranslated books in the world. I was astonished to discover that less than 10% of Neo-Latin books have been translated (ie, most of everything published, from the renaissance to modern period)

  • ChrisArchitect7 days ago

    Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44552362

  • maxloh3 days ago

    Although preserving the original copy is important too, I believe many of the risks could be mitigated if those books were scanned (or are they?).

  • EGreg4 days ago

    Reminds me of this: https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/366053/at-his-peak-pablo...

  • 3 days ago
    [deleted]
  • funnym0nk3y3 days ago

    I'm surprised that they use such a tame method for eradication. I expected the use of huge loads of insecticides.

    • chmod7753 days ago |parent

      You could spray insecticides and kill some percentage while damaging the books further.

      Or you put them in a sealed environment with no oxygen, killing every single one of these beetles.

      I'm not sure that the more lethal option is "tame".

      • MichaelRo3 days ago |parent

        How about stuffing the books in a freezer? Apparently this can kill both bugs and their eggs, although I'm not sure it works on the particular kind of bugs in these books:

        https://www.reddit.com/r/IsItBullshit/comments/orpifq/isitbu...

        Also there exist "ultra low" freezers which can bring temperature waay lower than the regular -20 Celsius. Like -80 or something. I doubt any bug or egg can survive such environment, although the books should suffer no harm.

        • krisoft3 days ago |parent

          I do not doubt that freezing them would kill the bugs. I would be worried that unless it is very carefully managed it might damage the books though. In particular i would worry that moisture from the air would freeze on the books and as they are thawed they would get water damaged. Or that moisture trapped inside the bindings would form ice crystals and physically damage the books as they form.

          None of these are concern with the hypoxic treatment they choose. Plus the nitrogen atmosphere treatment is so much simpler on the practical level. Instead of bringing in freezers and powering them for the whole duration of the treatment all you need is some crates, plastic bags and nitrogen bottles. Makes it much easier to bring the treatment where the books are, thus you avoid all kind of complications with transporting the books.

          • MichaelRo3 days ago |parent

            Well, it's an idea. Perhaps de-humidifying the books first...

            The hypoxic approach needs to last at least until eggs hatch, otherwise you're back to square one. And I'm not so sure if a plastic bag can hold tight for long without leaking (nitrogen out, air in).

            • tokai3 days ago |parent

              Most insect eggs require external oxygen exchange. Low oxygen treatment against beetles is a common method used for stored grains.

            • FinnKuhn3 days ago |parent

              De-humidifying the books however could also damage them so I believe their solution is probably the best for this purpose.

        • staplung3 days ago |parent

          One potential problem might be that they have to treat the entire collection of 400,000 books at the same time (which makes sense because otherwise you risk rotating the beetles through the collection). So they'd have to find such an ultra-low temp freezer that was large enough to hold 400k books.

          Also, although I assume this is a very rare ability among insects and probably not applicable to the "drugstore beetle" from this article, check out this insane fly species I found while looking for freeze tolerant insects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypedilum_vanderplanki It (or its larvae, anyway) can survive temperatures as low as 3K!

          • thaumasiotes3 days ago |parent

            > One potential problem might be that they have to treat the entire collection of 400,000 books at the same time (which makes sense because otherwise you risk rotating the beetles through the collection). So they'd have to find such an ultra-low temp freezer that was large enough to hold 400k books.

            They don't have to treat them all in the same place. They could use more than one freezer.

      • funnym0nk3y3 days ago |parent

        Well, I thought of adding high volatile insecticides to the bags.

    • pedalpete3 days ago |parent

      I'm dealing with a carpet beetle infestation at my house which is eating my furniture (natural fibres and horse hair).

      Insecticides will damage the natural fibers. The risk is that they damage the books more than the beetles would.

      Insecticide or desiccants directly on the books, for example the natural adhesives, could cause the adhesive to crack, destroying the book.

      I wish I could do this sealed nitrogen process. At the moment, it's spraying cedar wood with lavender and sticking into the less accessible places where the beetles are likely burrowing, and vaccuuming regularly.

      • froglets3 days ago |parent

        You should try diatomaceous earth, it gets rid of anything with an exoskeleton and is even food safe. Just don’t breathe it in or get it in your eyes. It takes a while to settle from the air if you use a bellows type applicator.

        • pedalpete2 days ago |parent

          Thanks. This is the next step, but I was told not to use it indoors. Maybe that isn't correct.

  • mdavid6263 days ago

    Any Hungarians here?

    • aronhegedus3 days ago |parent

      Igen!

  • wiseowise3 days ago

    [flagged]

    • endgame3 days ago |parent

      This isn't reddit.

      • wiseowise3 days ago |parent

        [flagged]

        • Den_VR3 days ago |parent

          The issue is Memes alone aren’t very substantive. And the snark snapback doesn’t set a healthy tone. Guidelines for everyone…

          “Omit internet tropes.”

          “Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.“

          https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

          • johnisgood3 days ago |parent

            So they are both in the wrong?

            • aspenmayer3 days ago |parent

              Signs point to yes.

              > Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead. If you flag, please don't also comment that you did.

              https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

    • fonkyyack3 days ago |parent

      I'm doing my part!

  • EUSSR3 days ago

    [flagged]

    • tomhow2 days ago |parent

      We've banned this account. Please stop creating accounts just to break the guidelines.