While NYT etc mostly stand back as the U.S. crosses the rubicon, what started as a freaking gadget review site seems to employ nearly all the journalists with actual gusto left in America.
The gusto to post an Amazon affiliate listicle?
Wired is doing pretty well on that front, too
Are you thinking of Wirecutter? They are a sub brand of NYT, whereas The Verge is part of Vox Media
According to Wikipedia's article on The Verge [1] "up to nine of Engadget's writers, editors, and product developers, including editor-in-chief Joshua Topolsky, left AOL, the company behind that website, to start a new gadget site."
So apparently they were once a 'gadget site'
Vox is an active participant in the culture war, just like the NYT.
The Verge has truly become one of the most respected sites on the web. Some of the best reporting, tech or otherwise, is being done there. Kudos
Yeah, this is quality content right here,
> Durable enough to survive a scuffle with a right-wing extremist, even if the bones of your hand do not
> 3M does not provide product information on which filters are best for government repression
Just get the one that everyone else does: NIOSH TC-84A-0510 with protection against "Solid Particles, Organic Vapors, Acid Gases, Ammonia, Formaldehyde, Methylamine". Every lab buys this filter, or its manufacturer equivalent, for dealing with god-knows-what, because this one will handle just about anything.
TC-84A-0510 is not a product. It is a certification for half-face masks + filter combos. The relevant certification for fullface masks+filters is TC-84A-070. (TC-84A-0701 or TC-84A-0704 more specifically)
Interesting read as a former CBRN instructor NCO (for a non-US military). A 3M 40mm is definitely the way to go with CP3N filters. They were once cheap but seem to be no longer
3M 6800 have all but sold out on Amazon, probably because of this review. I had almost forgotten about Portland in 2020. This author has some great writing about the double standard of non-violence as well. 10/10
I would generally use McMaster-Carr whenever possible. They will almost never go out of stock even during national crises. I don't generally trust Amazon for items that I can't validate myself due to counterfeiting, e.g. there's a lot of fake knockoff HEPA filters marketed as OEM.
3M 6000 full-face masks: https://www.mcmaster.com/5541T605/
The image shows just a particulate filter, but the listing actually includes 3M bayonet-style cartridges for chemical exposure.
> 3M does not provide product information on which filters are best for government repression
That would be the 3M™ Organic Vapor/Acid Gas Cartridge/Filter 60923 [0]. Replace after each exposure or 30 days after opening the sealed packaging for best results. A clean shave is important for a good air seal.
The absolute best protection would be a PAPR (powered air-purifying respirator) with a TR-6530N filter [1] installed. Something like the 3M Versaflo M-407SG[2] would fit the filter and provide impact resistance. It can be fitted with a Speedglas 9100XXi [3] (or 9100X/V) auto-darkening filter for protection against flashbangs.
This is an equivalent PAPR [3] with a better form factor which also includes ANSI Z87.1 rated impact-protection (helpful against projectiles) and auto-darkening lenses (helpful against flashbangs/pyrotechnics). It also still works fine even if you keep a beard. I believe this is part of the Optrel Helix product line, which advertises 14-hour battery life. However, the listing I linked does not come with organic vapor / acid-gas filtration. That requires a different form factor for the filter, the Optrel ABE1P Combination Filter [4] offers A1B1E1P certification (Protects against organic gases/vapors, inorganic gases, acid gases, and particulates)
As 'closewith added, "CBRN" or "NBC" masks are also a good option - they are rated for chemical/biological/radiation/nuclear contamination and are available as riot gear with good impact-resistance. Look for A2B2E2K2-P3 ratings / certification.
You could also look into something like the Joseph Leslie Dynamiks A3B3E3K3-rated Jumbo canister for 10000 ppm extended exposure. [5]
0: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/dc/v000075263/
1: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/cartridges/manufacturer-mo...
2: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1892506O/3m-versaflo-m-4...
3: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/speedglas-welding-helmets-us/spe...
3: https://www.mcmaster.com/9258n17/
4: https://optrel.us/product/upgradekit-combifilter-swiss-air-5...
5: https://www.josephlesliedynamiks.com/brochures/Gas_Filters.p...
I wonder how that performs vs the CP3N.
My own experience is that fit is as/more important than filters, and who knows how well civvies will fit their CBRN gear. It's _oppressively_ uncomfortable!
I've used the same 3M 6011 (organic vapor) filter for years, for tasks like cleaning with ammonia where I'm not really worried about hazardous exposure just nuisance [0]. And it's lasted just fine (extremely off-label use, of course). So with something like tear gas where you're not worried about actual toxicity per se, I'd think that subjective experience would be fine for knowing when it needs to be changed. If you want to be paranoid, it seems like you could also carry a backup fresh set still in the sealed foil.
With the prices for respirators going up (/me gestures at federal "government" attacking our own cities), if I wanted to save money I'd get a knock-off full face respirator from Amazon (or Ali if you're comfortable transiting the import blockade with this specific item), and then genuine cartridges (NOT from Amazon obviously, lol).
[0] for most things I do, I use the 2097 filters which are primarily particulate with just a small amount of activated charcoal for "nuisance vapors". This is all generally with half-face 7500 bodies.
The problem I found was that some of them are designed to keep particulates out but aren't as worried about also keeping particulates in as well. This was relevant-circa 2020. No idea how these rank on that metric.
Surely that would be a cleanroom-style bunny suit?
Actually, just a normal <$10 N95 [0][1] (without an exhalation valve). But they won't stop chemicals, just particles. My family have found they prevent COVID transmission from masked sick members to unmasked family members, as well as from unmasked sick members to masked family members.
I'd say basically all of them in this target market - a respirator with check valves is much more comfortable to use.
For the beginning of Covid I modded my 7500 (half face) to remove the check valve flaps and seal up what would normally be the exhaust ports, making both inhale and exhale go through the 2297 filters. It was harder to breathe, more humid, and developed liquid water accumulation over longer periods.
I would think that if you did the same thing with a full face respirator, it would immediately fog up. If you look at the flow path on them, it's something like atmosphere -> filter -> top face portion -> mouth nose portion -> atmosphere, presumably to keep the part you need to see out of full of dry air.
None of which are practical if you need to wear glasses.
In many cases, especially for the higher end models, you can spend in the neighborhood of $100 to get an Rx face-shield. On the note of matters that didn't seem to come up much in the article, but that I feel like people should know:
The kind of cartridge you need to withstand teargas is not an N95, as the top comment points out it's quite a bit more involved. The downside of that other than cost and duration of the filter is that you'll feel a lot more resistance on inhaling than you're used to. For some people the combination of something on their face and the feeling of restricted breathing is unbearable, and mid-tear gas attack is a terrible time to realize that.
Consider also that this becomes far more important if you're working hard, say running around or fighting. Anyone who has it in their head to give this a try should keep those factors in mind, as well as get a kit to properly fit-test because again... mid-attack is a terrible time to realize that your fit isn't up to snuff. Likewise with training to don and doff.
In a lot of ways the article feels like clickbait that's extremely self-aware, but not really concerned with the practical reality of what they're implying.
Honestly the 3M 60923 cartridges don't restrict breathing at all. They have great airflow. I've used them all day long in chemical plants, no one complains about that.
Seconded. I've used those exact cartridges. Not for as long of shifts as you, but I'd say the face mask fit is much more important for that.
My DIY-perspective tip is that when you're getting to know the respirator, you can take the filter cartridges off and put your hands over the input ports to feel what fully restricted breathing feels like, make it a known sensation in case it ends up happening. Likewise you can cover the output port and breathe out to do a kind of rough fit test.
I save my hotel key cards and keep a few of them in each of the safety cabinets and kits.
You can hold up a key card to cover each bayonet filter and it seals it perfectly for a quick test at any time.
I usually put those in a parts drawer for use when opening electronic devices built with clipped together plastic cases.
Good tip, though! I'll have to try that next time I'm using the bayonets.
There is a glasses kit available for the listed 3M 6800.
dang should permanently ban everyone who flagged this.
A permanent ban seems strong, but it sure does seem like folks are using flagging as a super downvote in this case
But that is exactly what the flag button is there for?! - but this discussion has been had numerous times, and the two sides will never agree.
Safest to flag (or not) as you see fit, because you are a good person rather than an evil one. Then rely on the admins to rescue needlessly ultraflagged articles as appropriate. They are pretty good at doing the right thing.
You're saying the discussion of which chemical respirators to wear to protests has been had numerous times?
I'd say this is a productive topic of conversation for many HN users. There are not "two sides" on this topic, unless we're talking 3M vs MSA. The people flagging or commenting with opposing political views are disrupting conversation, likely because they they disagree with how the topic has been framed. This is exactly like PHP fans going into a Python thread and telling everyone Python sucks, disrupting the people who just wanted to discuss getting things done within the framework of Python. They might have some valid points, but they're not germane to civil discussion.
No, I was referring to discussion of the semantics of flagging. Apologies; I thought it was phrased clearly enough, but, perhaps not. (Maybe I should have said "that discussion" rather than "this discussion"? This is my native tongue, so you can't trust me to get this stuff perfectly right.)
An amazon affiliate link wrapped in the mantle of edgy resistance. Ignoring that, why would anybody take this site serious for gasmask recommendations? Shallow and fast-food level information.
This place got crowded with leftists.
I thought ring wingers also like freedom and would fight to protect it.
Yet another interesting article flagged because it touches on American politics.
What's the procedure for flagged articles become unflagged? Maybe do I need more karma or something before I can vouch for them?
https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented
Normally most users can vouch for flagged submissions. The fact that this is non-vouchable is interesting.
Could it be that people who have commented in a flagged post are forbidden from vouching?
That's my suspicion. Likely with an IP association as well for people with alt-accounts.
The link you posted says users can only vouch for dead submissions, though?
[flagged]
Posting this article in this format reminds me of truly good story writing. Would've been a top 3 pieces of writing all time for me without all of the anecdotes in between. All of the information you need to know is already written without all of the in-your-faceness of the bridge paragraphs between reviews.
Still an amazing story, props to the Verge. But could've been an all time great.
Bewildering comment. Without the anecdotes, this is just a product review. /s?
You misunderstand.
> 3M does not provide product information on which filters are best for government repression
Great writing.
>When I eventually sat down to write my article about the Portland protests, I had a strange kind of epiphany, if it can even be called that. Out in the real world, when drowning in tear gas and adrenaline
Bad writing.
This is a genius product review right now for all the reasons everyone else thinks it is. I didn't need to read a single one of the authors personal experiences to understand the underlying message, or read ~100 words about their internal struggles to classify Portland as a riot versus a protest. The lack of brevity and conciseness seriously undercuts the absolute geniusness of maliciously compliant product reviews about gas masks in our current political climate.
My comment is about the art of subtlety. Again, this is an amazing article, but it's literally just been flagged by HN because it waxes poetic about politics instead of allowing all of that to be there without saying it. We can all read between the lines.
That makes sense to me. I really enjoyed the personal anecdotes and I thought they made the article a lot stronger for me, but a dry gas mask review would have also been an excellent, albeit different, article.